On Wednesday in Copenhagen, I interviewed Lumumba Stanislaus Di-Aping, the chief negotiator for the G77, the largest developing country bloc represented at the climate summit in Copenhagen. Over the course of the negotiations, Ambassador Lumumba has gained a reputation for candor, putting the stakes for Africa in stark, emotional terms.

This was Ambassador Lumumba’s first chance to react to the shocking news that Ethiopian Prime Minister Meles Zenawi had crossed the G77 and backed the EU position for a 2 degree temperature increase and only $10-billion in financing. He was clearly not pleased, but neither does he think the game is over.

We talked about this and many other issues. See the clips below.

On the state of the negotiations: “Massive rift”:

On Zenawi’s big mistake: “He erred on three counts”:

On the “He’s from Sudan!” smear: “Simply patronizing”:

On what it means to consciously choose 2 degrees over 1.5: “Climate fascism…a murderous act, a calculated one”:

On Todd Stern’s Climate Debt Denialism: “Simply unacceptable… a grave injustice has been committed”:

On climate change blowback: Potential “climate terrorists”:

On the push to seal the deal: “Only if the deal is just…otherwise it’s really hollow”:

Research support for Naomi Klein’s reporting from Copenhagen was provided by the Investigative Fund at The Nation Institute. They were published in collaboration with The Nation. The videotapes in this post were made in collaboration with The UpTake.